25Minutes: Insights. Expertise. Impact.
In just 25 minutes, I deliver concise and thought-provoking conversations with top minds in technology, cybersecurity, business, culture and enterpreneurship. Whether you’re a technologist, executive, culture-enthusiast or someone passionate about growth, each episode explores trends, strategies and ideas that shape success.
For those with limited time but unlimited ambition, 25Minutes offers actionable insights and fresh perspectives where they matter most. Your time is valuable. Your 25 minutes. Your advantage.
Contact: eliel.mulumba25@gmail.com
25Minutes: Insights. Expertise. Impact.
(Bonus 1) - Lionel Hapi Modje: IT & Cyber in Africa - the untold story about truth, growth and grit. Hannover Messe, startups, innovation and digital penetration
In this episode, I sit down with Lionel again to explore the evolving landscape of technology and resilience in Africa. Together, we unpack the striking differences in market value, digital growth and investment priorities when compared to Europe and the United States. Our conversation sheds light on how digital resilience is being shaped in regions where fundamental challenges like hunger and poverty still dominate policy agendas - and how digital literacy, although still uneven, is accelerating. We dive into current investment trends in more developed economies such as South Africa, the expansion of mobile broadband access and why the continent’s increasing internet user base could mark Africa as a future innovation hub.
But this isn’t just a numbers-driven discussion. Lionel shares how a simple moment - eating risotto - led him to change perspective as well as the importance of perspective in cybersecurity. We also touch on a lighter but culturally rich debate: Ghanaian vs. Nigerian Jollof rice.
Our Guest:
Lionel LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lionel-hapi-modje-33641ba4/
25 Minutes Podcast
Hostey by: Eliel Mulumba
Audio editing & mastering: Michael Lauderez
Join conversation on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/eliel-mulumba-133919147
Fact Check
https://www.statista.com/outlook/tmo/cybersecurity/africa
https://www.mordorintelligence.com/industry-reports/europe-cybersecurity-market
https://www.fortunebusinessinsights.com/industry-reports/cyber-security-market-101165
Lionel, welcome again to 25 minutes. It's such a pleasure to welcome you again as our guest. We both have received a lot of feedback, positive feedback also from the community with regards to our third episode that we have done together in the month of February. I'm so glad to welcome you again. The topic of today is more to discuss about cyber and IT. on our continent, Africa. And we both have been exchanging a lot about this topic. And I just would like to provide also a couple of facts. Recent reports that are showing a bit the differences in the cyber and I. T. sector between Africa, Europe and the U. S. The European cybersecurity market was valued at 26 billion Euro in and the African cybersecurity market valued around 3 billion. So there's already a huge gap. When it comes to I. T. services, the market in Europe. It's supposed to grow on based on the compound the growth rate, and it's expected to have around 460 billion in 2025. The U. S. market is worth around or is supposed to reach 700 billion U.
S. dollar by 2030. And the African IT market is supposed to be around 33 billion by 2029. So for both it and cyber, we see a significant gap in investment. We see a significant gap in market value. And was wondering, why do you think that this is the case, Leona?
Thank you, Eliel. So you're asking me what why is this a huge gap
Yes.
in investment in the IT in cyber security in Africa? I think, first of all, when we observe team topics like A. I. We think above Stargate, the new company that Trump, the President, Trump, the newly elected President Trump, um, announced, uh, compo as Stargate is, um, a company that will be back, I mean, will, uh, that is created out of other big fishes like open ai and, um, the guys, Larry from Oracle and so on.
So we see that, um, sorry, what, sorry, I need to think about what I wanted to say.
Easy. So we were, we are discussing the gap in market and also. Investments. And you wanted to give the example of the U S. Where we see that the president Trump is putting a lot of effort into the development Stargate that the government stands behind the technology and the investments. And I think you wanted to go somewhere into that direction.
Yeah, exactly. And you see that they have decided to invest around, I don't know if it's max or around 500 billion in AI infrastructure. And when I started, I mentioned the newly elected president Trump. So we see. It's coming from the top. So the top is deciding. We know in Africa we have this problem in many countries from the top.
I don't want to tell example now, we know and um, many dirigent, many president in Africa, many leaders don't emphasize or maybe I don't know if they don't understand the need. to invest in cyber security infrastructure in Africa. So this is for me, one of the big reason why this gap is so huge.
Thank you.
Uh, and thank you very much for elaborating on that. And, and, you know, I would wonder. Is cyber and I. T. different and all those continents or are we not talking about the same? I mean, when it comes to cyber security, we're looking for confidentiality. So we want to make sure that the data that we have is transferred also in the right way, is available to the right person. We want to make sure that it's integer, right to avoid any manipulations or changes. And we want to make sure that this is available. So it's the CIH rate. I would say it's pretty different. It shouldn't be pretty different, right? It should be quite similar. How do you see it from your perspective?
Yeah cyber and IT is quietly the same in Europe or in America, in Africa. It's, it's the same. I think the thing we need to talk about right now is the I don't know the name. I think we call it the digital literacy or illiteracy. So let me explain it. Significant portion of the population in Africa lack awareness of cyber risk, making, making them making them like more successive to phishing and online scam, you know, so basically.
As I said, it's the same confidentiality, integrity, availability. It doesn't matter if you are in Africa or in Europe or in Asia. But I think the thing we should focus on is this term of digital
Mm
literacy. So this is something, I mean, if the population is more aware of this cyber risk, then the adoption of cybersecurity will be higher.
This is one of you.
when it comes to cyber threats, what are from your experience, typical cyber threats that we do see in Africa that might be a bit different compared to what we do see? the rest of the world
I think the cyber threat are pretty similar, but the different is the different lies in the cyber security infrastructure. You mentioned before at the beginning the gap in the investment, you know, you say how much was the investment in, in Europe for it and cyber security?
500,
billion billion dollar.
Exactly. And how much was it in Africa? 33. So we see the huge gap. This tells also a lot about the cyber security infrastructure. So the threat will be the same, but the response to the threat will not be the same. In Europe, the response will be better because of the better infrastructure because of people having a dedicate like Huge company, uh, in the public sector and the private sector, most of them, not most of them, many of them have like a SOC first line of defense.
They are haunting. They are, they are doing threat haunting. They are looking for security incidents. They are responding. They have the infrastructure for it. So the question is, do we have the same capability in Africa? Like, obviously there are many companies in Africa who have this, that have these capacities, but not like we see in Europe.
So that's the problem. So the problem is not that the threats are different. The problem is The response, the infrastructure is not the same.
comes to the infrastructure I mean, if you're looking at the capabilities that we do see nowadays. In China and Europe and U. S. This house. This also had a starting point. I don't believe that the infrastructures have been in the same way from a quality perspective and level today in 2025 already in the nineties.
So this has also evolved over time. They developed themselves also over time. And I'm wondering why do we still have this gap? Yeah. When it comes to our beautiful continent, in terms of, you know, IT and cyber, if the challenges, if the threat actors, if the threats. That generally exist in the industry are pretty similar. Are we missing the money? I think we have a lot of very, very rich countries. If I'm looking at Congo right now, my country plays a huge role for actually everything that has to do with e mobility with regards to resources that do lie in the east of the Congo. So I'm wondering. it the priorities that are maybe different?
If you're also looking at Saudi Arabia right now, they want to become more and more independent from oil and trying to invest into technology, especially also into artificial intelligence, for example. What is your take on that?
Yeah. As you said, I think in Africa, for example the priorities, uh, lies most of the time in other things we see many region. that are fighting against hunger, that are fighting to have their freedom from other countries, that are fighting to have peace, you know, so this country will not invest a lot in cyber security or in the IT infrastructure.
But we see also like more developed country. I'm thinking about South Africa, for example, I've been there a lot of time. You see what they're doing, how they are embraced, embracing the technology, embracing the digital, the digital transformation. And then you also, you also see more investment in this field, but generally in many of these Africa country, the priority are not the same or the awareness of the top, because I'm always talking about the top, like the president, the leader, not sometimes it's not that huge regarding IT regarding technology.
And that's why we, we see that, uh, there are not so many, so much investment, like we would like to see in the IT and cybersecurity world in Africa.
And I mean, we try to think a bit about the opportunities that I T and cyber could bring to Africa, what are the Let's say opportunities that you would see from an innovation perspective, from a digitalization perspective, could bring value not only to societies, but also to governments, to businesses. I know that you have recently been in Rwanda also, on a cyber security event that you told me. So are your takes from, you know, conversations with people on the ground? How do they embrace technology? How do they see the transformation?
Yeah, obviously I've been in Kigali for a cybersecurity defense forum, and I had the opportunity to talk with many African leader in the field coming from. All around Africa and from around the world as well. So what I've noticed is many people are doing a huge work in the trending field like cloud security, like AI, DevSecOps, etc.
But then we also identify some, some challenges, some things that are not helping to, to, to develop us. As quickly as we see it in other developed country, you know, for example, the shortage, shortage of skilled professional. So you will see a notable deficit of cybersecurity experts across the continent.
Because many people don't have access to school, access to technology. Obviously we know why.
Mm-hmm
Many country are not, they don't have the, the money. Some people just are just happy if they can eat. You know? Not everybody, because they're also rich. Africa normal people with a standard way of living, but you will see some people dreaming of being cyber security professional, but the apparent or they don't have the means to it.
You cannot go to school to let it, they cannot go to the university, they cannot afford it. So this is one of the biggest challenge that was address addressed. Um, besides obviously the, the challenge of building a resilient, huge cybersecurity infrastructure in Africa, which demand a lot of investment.
There's something also that we were talking about because we have noticed. Um, many countries in Africa, they are doing, everybody is doing its own thing. So there's an absence of a unified cybersecurity policies or policy generally, like we can see many unified cybersecurity policies or other things in regarding data protection, like the the, the GPR in in Europe.
So this is also. Like something that is lacking in Cameroon. We see all of all the, I think, 54 African countries, they are just
Mm-hmm
all of them have been cyber, cybercrime laws, you know, in comparison to Western countries. So many don't even have like this low to against cybercrime, you know, and it's also challenging to cooperate within Africa or with other country internationally.
This is also what we were talking about something people have identified something we need to work on. Mm hmm.
with a couple of facts with regards to internet penetration. But also developments in the infrastructure area that you have just mentioned earlier. So, looking at the growth of Internet users, between 2010 and 2021, Internet penetration increased from 9.
6 percent to 33%. When it comes to broadband expansion from 2012 to 2022, the number of Africans with mobile broadband has more than tripled, so reaching nearly 400 million. And when it comes to infrastructure developments, there are actually a lot of initiatives that are working on rolling out fiber optic networks to improve also high speed internet access in Central Africa. We have also projects that are working. On enhancing connectivity across 33 countries. I think it's the two Africa subsea project, but still we do see that although the internet penetration has increased, I think 85 percent of Africa's population has access to 3G services. Only 60 percent is covered by 4G and less than 10 percent is covered by 5G. to the global average that is around 50 percent already for 5G. So this is showing that there's still you know, some challenges ahead of us. And I mean, I have been in Africa also recently, and I realize huge differences when it comes to being in a city, and then moving out of the city to more, outside areas, to regions. Where, you really had the impression that you were not able to do phone calls. You were not able to access proper internet, right? So is this something where we should put priority on?
Obviously we need to do it because I mentioned before, uh, this example of, of, of Stargate in, in in the U S you know, so country, they are working, they, they are striving for greatness in the artsy war in the development, you know, and we don't want to be left behind as African. We don't want it.
So I think we should put more effort in it. Encouraging innovation. For example, uh, we should develop local expert expertise. You know, I know you are somehow behind, but, uh, it's not, it's not a fate like we will not remain like this all the time. We know the story of China. We know the story of Japan, how we could we know the story of Dubai, you know.
How we come from, like, behind and where they are right now. So it's also possible for us to be innovative, to be competitive. Yeah, I think through initiatives like your postcard right now, we can gather together, we can think, we can unify our effort, think of what we can do for our motherland. You know, and yeah, do great things together.
if I understand you correctly, we should embrace technology. We should make sure that people are still curious and also see the value that comes with it. I also hear a lot of education and talent development. You're saying that we should also build local Work forces or ensure that they have the right level of training.
So that means those. Topics around IT and cyber security should also be embedded into the educational system within the school, but also for universities. If I'm just thinking about, you know, family members that I do have that have, that are six, seven, Eight years old going to school in Germany and Switzerland or in France. They somehow already start getting introduced to the usage of tablets. And I'm not sure if this is already something that is ongoing, but going into that direction would help us actually to also reduce the gap or how would you see it?
Yeah, of course. Of course going into that direction will help us because you know, before you do something, you, you need to, you need to to use your imagination first. You need to have seen some, something, you know, you, you will net, you, you will never think above. Like flying in the plane, if you have never seen a plane, I mean, maybe you would, but normally you see a plane first and then you think about flying in on a plane.
So what I want to explain is people like five, six, seven year old child in Europe, in Switzerland, in, in France and so on being exposed to tablets, et cetera, make them think, okay. What can I do with it? Let's say my, my parent my parent doesn't, don't want me to use the tablet more than one hour a day.
So they put some kind of parental control or they put a, a, a pin code on my tablet. So a kid, which is a six, seven will be mad every time after one hour, he cannot access to it anymore, or he goes to the tablet, but there is a pin code. So he will. Start thinking, how can I, how can I hack this? You know, this is how we start.
So if you don't expose kids to that kind of technology at the early age, how do you want them to think about doing something like hacking? I mean, now I'm talking about hacking. It sounds negative, but you can also use this energy in a positive way, you know, like exposing kids. to technology in the early age, help them to have more imagination what they can do with it, you know.
It's something we don't have a lot in Africa.
mean, thank you very much for sharing that, Leonel. So really having the vision. Uh, creating imagination to have a big picture in front of us, security and also I. T. Can help us to enable businesses can help us for progress. This is really inspiring. And thank you for your words regarding that. Something something that I
welcome.
be interested to know is you if you have any anecdotes When it comes to your own IT and cyber journey that you would like to share with us.
Oh an anecdote when it's come to my cyber journey is I will, I will give it a title of sometime having. a new perspective to think sometimes view things on another perspective. Let me, uh, tell you a story. So I started to eat risotto around two or three months ago. You know, risotto, right?
You like risotto?
I have other dishes that I prefer, but it's okay. Now
Okay. Before I ate risotto, I was always thinking of fried rice. Me, I was born in Cameroon, in central Africa. I grew up in Cameroon, so we have good, many type of fried rice, and you are from Congo, you know as well, it's Central Africa, you know many, uh, fried rice variety, like, in Ghana, in Nigeria, in West Africa, generally, Jollof rice, you know, so.
If you want to compare the jollof rice of those countries, that's a big thing.
Okay. Let's just say, uh, all the general fry, all this fried rice are really delicious and, uh, really enjoy it. So when I saw risotto the first time, like a couple of years ago, I was like, okay, Is it just a filled fried rice? Because it looks, it doesn't look like, like the fried rice I know from Central Africa, West Africa, from this delicious fried rice.
I tried it, I was like, no, this is filled. This is, this is not good as well. And then I didn't eat it anymore, but out of the sudden, like a couple of months ago, I started to look at it from a different perspective and view of it. And then I started to separate to this, this, uh, dissociate fried rice. And risotto.
Once I did it, I took risotto again, I went to a restaurant, I ordered risotto, I ate it, it was so delicious. And since then, I'm enjoying risotto because I could separate it from what I had in my head, like, this must be a failed, a failed fried rice, you know. So, having another perspective. Help me so much to enjoy risotto now.
Now I've been eating risotto so much. So I just want to say sometime you just need to look things from another perspective when we talk about information security, when you are conducting a risk assessment, you want to protect an asset. For example, sometimes you just look things from one perspective and you think This asset is secure, but it's not secure just because you have this tunnel, tunnel view of thing.
Sometimes you just need to change the perspective and then you will make it great work.
Thank you very much for sharing your story, Lionel. It was a pleasure to have you here again as a guest on our show.
Thank you very much.
